How long did it take you to master Joomla?

[American High Tech, LLC]

I am embarking on a web page development company. I decided to use Joomla. I have started to develop my own web page on Joomla. I plan to start with one, static page development for very small businesses and grow my company with them. Any suggestions? I welcome any of you out there that have the same interests to send me a "Friend" request!

[vivi]

Hmm..very interesting. Joomla is an excellent platform check SASFOR on Joomla http://sasfor.org 

Now to answer your question. Have been dabbling with joomla for the last few years but have not mastered it as yet- not by a long long shot. A very robust platform with a highly involved community. 

But a question what benefits do you see using Joomla for a business platform ?

Regards

Media Team SASFOR

[vivi]

Actually we are exploring Ning as an option to migrate too. May be too early to say that because we are still trying to discover the CMS value of Ning. So far the CMS value is not evident but I am sure its  buried deep with this platform. Still exploring.

[American High Tech, LLC]

I see Joomla being used as a business platform because of the intergration with a supposedly seamless intergration of a host service. and its ongoing technical assistance in resolving issues with the software.

 

[vivi]

No doubt "its ongoing technical assistance in resolving issues with the software"/ platform is par excellence :

further their "forum" answers just about any question under the planet regarding CMS's  and Joomla specifically- as a matter of fact you can get more than a few answers about Ning on that forum :) no kidding.

This brings me to the "supposedly seamless intergration of a host service". Most decent hosts out there do an excellent job hosting Joomla. Just make sure the host you choose lets you have access to your php.ini files. Better still use Joomlas host Rochen.

Having said that a full fledged CMS does have a wee bit of a learning curve. Yes Joomla is definitely easier than say Drupal or Typo and no doubt that both Drupal and Typo are a tad advanced compared to Joomla.

That deals with my thoughts on Developers or NCs.

But what about multiple users/ contributors? -rhetorical.

Example most of our users just want a simple way of uploading a picture or a bit of content or whatever. This is where the challenge lies.

In joomla this challenge is far greater than Typo or Drupal. A bit of trivia  the White House now uses Drupal!! Lufthansa [The German Airline] Typo !!  

E Commerce on Integrated CMS's is a challenge too. The recent Hacking of STRATFOR that comprised millions of credit card details etc. Is a situation I would be wary off. No STRATFOR did not use an open source CMS. The point being, if STRATFOR was hacked with the specific intention of discovering User IDs [credit card details were just an added bonus] then an open source CMS is very vulnerable. 

Regards- Media Lead SASFOR

 

[Tyler Durbin]

I have been using Joomla for 6-7 years on various sites and used to love it.  Their menu and the ability to easily put Modules on any page is great.  Unfortunately, they have upgraded so much over the last 2 years that it is difficult to use the same themes and plugins.  What really did not like is that you do have to modify the system files to get some of the desired functionality.  But the problem is that every time Joomla comes out with an update (Which is a LOT) you have to make those changes all over again or keep track of the changed files. 

This time around, I redid my main site from Joomla to Wordpress.  They say Joomla has a bigger learning curve but I had one heck of a time with Wordpress.  Once I realized that it really was that simple, I loved it.

The widgets in WP seem so much more seamless than the plugins of Joomla.  Now, Joomla is great if you need people to log in to download files.  I use DocMan for that.  Here is the problem, we still use Joomla 1.6 with Docman in legacy mode.  They only have versions for 1.5 and 2.5.  For me to upgrade to 2.5, we will lose our theme and the site will totally have to be done over while hoping the DocMan database stays intact...aka nightmare.

The other thing is that even with paid SEO plugings for Joomla, it would take weeks for Google to index pages.  With WP, it takes minutes.  As soon as I publish something, it is already in Google.  I do have a sitemap plugin. I also use Backup Buddy to take automatic snapshots of my site and they are uploaded to Amazon's S3 cloud storage.  The backups for Joomla never quite worked well.

The other thing about Joomla that really killed them for me was the ease of changing templates.  You can do it but then you have to go through every module and re-place them on the pages otherwise, you have modules everywhere. In WP, a theme change is easy. 

Lastly, if Joomla goes down or you get database errors, you better have a backup.  With WP, you can put up a fresh install and then import everything. 

Just my 2 cents...

[American High Tech, LLC]

I'm going to put more time in Wordpress as well. There are a lot of terms that I am not quite used to... like SEO.. I'm catching on but everything is so technical... I really like the ability to have other folks log in to the site under an umbrella.. I do plan to use other developers a lot..and as many as possable. I am a lot better at sales of web sites and marketing..hopefully I can find a reliable group to elaborate on all issues and form an alliance to take advantage of this emerging opportunity..

[vivi]

Very pertinent "2 cents" I might add. I have upgraded to J 2.5x from 1.5, it was a nightmare. The other thing about Joomla is the frequency of security upgrades. Typo does not have much of an issue there.

As you can see SASFOR on Joomla is still not totally complete. Thanx to the 2.5x migration !

Again coming back to security, with Joomla it is strongly advised not to miss a single security patch or upgrade- a bit easier now with an in built updater, very much like Word Press.

Ditto, I had "one heck of a time with Wordpress", correction still have one heck of a time. Endless list of plugs.

 

[Tim]

I think Wordpress has really matured, and I do have some sites that use it as the core, with BuddyPress providing the community side of it. There's a lot to like. But I'm just in the process of moving one of them to Ning, as it's just...well....easy to use and manage, and some things, like moderation controls for sign-ups etc., are more effective than anything I've tried for WP.  With Ning you're less likely to wake up to a network full of bizarre posts about designer handbags or replica watches.

Personally, I never warmed to Joomla. It seems somehow old-fashioned and if you want to add anything like the kind of integrated social networking which Ning offers, then you're quickly forced down an expensive and not very intuitive or well-supported road.  Joomla does feel nice and big and techie, but far too often people (both clients and site developers) don't look closely enough at what functionality a site really needs, who is going to use it and why.

[Patrick Chappelle]

Hey Tim!

Were you not a SiteSuites customer at one time, or no?

Either way, I agree with your assessment, and I just spoke with Vince from SiteSites and he concurs. Considering all Ning has put him and his company through over the years, I'm actually surprised to hear him say that Ning would be preferable to Joomla.

SASFOR, Vince is done with Joomla and the Expander.

[Tim]

In the end, I never used SiteSuites, but know Vince and his colleagues from the heady days of all kinds of long-gone third-party offerings on Ning. And if both you and he agree with my thoughts, I'm honored, humbled and blush...lol.

I think the only thing that ever concerns me about Ning is when I realise I'm putting the whole of my business in the hands of an integrated software and hosting company I have no control over, and my ability to move content easily is limited, particularly as a site gets large.

But I don't lose too much sleep over that; the Ning team is pro-active, listens, is doing good things and as Ning has matured and gathered some really big networks and high profile long-term clients, I feel a lot less worried than I used to.  And one-stop web solutions are much more common than they were.  

In short, any time I build something on a platform other than Ning, I usually end up wishing for things I'm used to here and the joy of not having to even think about what's going on with the backups and hosting.

[Tyler Durbin]

I can tell you, through experience, that I am 100% glad I decided to move my entire network to Ning.  After 4 years of expensive servers, database errors and development fees I looked at Ning and felt the same way you did. 

Some of the things I gave up moving to Ning were things I thought I had to have (Because they were cool).  In the end, nobody missed them.  The site speed and functions of Ning were more than enough to make my members happy.

Yes, I do wish for a zip code search but for now, I can work around that.

I don't miss my server fees that I was paying.  That's for sure!

[Patrick Chappelle]

I once used certain Joomla components as part of my SiteSuites subscription, via their Joomla Expander right here at Ning. Being a newbie at the time, I found it a simple matter, and only required the occasional assist (though I'm friends with the architects of SiteSuites, I'm uncertain if they still offer this service).

Ning is a great platform, but I find myself in a quandary when I'm asked if someone should invest in building a community here (and I am asked frequently). It's certainly lots easier than building a community with Joomla (or comparable service), but is not much ahead of their competition with regards to features. Currently I am working for another Ning community, and its creator has concerns about Ning, and had considered other options such as what you gentlemen are discussing here. My advice to my employer has been to stick with Ning, but I wish there were more we could do here, short of bringing back web dav access.